A LITTLE CONTROVERSY: STEAM vs. DIESEL

[pockets]

Yes, the name change disturbs me, but I'm an old fart and I don't like change in areas that I seek solace.

Having said that, I'm giving serious consideration to the construction of a 3.75" scale Baldwin gas mechanical. You know, the WWI army engines. Simply because I can put it together faster than a steamer. It will be prototypical, too, not a gasser posing as a diesel.

I love steam...Had the oportunity to do some minor electrical work on 614, years ago, and have a real fetish for 2' gauge. I was round house electrician for Chessie System, before they succunbed to the Cheap, Shoddy Experiment ( That's the term we used in polite company ). I suppose I can tolerate the diesel outline locomotives ( drove one, today ), but lose those sound effects!!

[andypullen]

I agree. But, some of those diseasel owners are actually just playing out at the track while they are building a steamer. I'm finishing a steam engine up for a diesel owner in Virginia right now.

I got into this hobby back in 1979 when there was a preponderence of steam. There was an electric or 2 in our club and a few of Cannonball's LilGassers. There was also one RR Supply SD-35. The lilgassers completely turned me off of non steam motive power. I just didn't see the point.

My brother built a nice model of the CNJ #1000 that's in the B&O Museum here in Baltimore and we've run it at NJLS and at the CALS. No sound system. It's good for my 8 year old son to run and it keeps him interested. (He's not tall enough to reach the throttle on my camelback) He's also built a pair of industrial diesel switchers. All of them can be regauged so he can run anywhere in the country.

There's a guy in the CALS with an 0-4-0 side rodded diesel. It's got a sound system and it sounds ridiculous. Sounds like the SD-60s that would get tested in the building that Norfolk Southern had the Steam Shop in. The whole building would shake when notched up! I would have to stop what I was doing in the machine shop.

I'll keep my steamers. Despite all the "work" involved with operation. My brother gave me a hard time one day after a run. He told me I was all dirty to which I told him he was jealous. He has built a number of steamers over the years, too, so it's not a rivalry.

As to Plum Cove's offerings; I'm not going to pass judgement.

Andy Pullen

[GWRdriver]

Damphmann,
Typically I have a long drawn out (and boring) socialogical explanation for why these things are, as I do here, but I won't bore you with it, but take me as an example . . . I like to build stuff, specifically steam locos and other steam engines and nothing else. I couldn't care less if I ever built a model I.C. engine, or got to run a train, except to check to see if a new loco would run well. But building a steam loco takes an abundance of specialized skills, tools, intelligence, time, and patience, among other things, and not everyone who wants to go railroading posseses those capabilities in the amounts necessary to build one.
But there are many, if not most, for whom goin' railroading and running and pulling is the ultimate goal and what matters to them is to get to running trains in the most expedient and economical way possible. An IC powered locomotive is one quick way to attain that goal.

The generational changes taking place, the dieing off of the older WW2 generation build-it-yourself live steamers, mean that the numbers in latter category are going to grow while the numbers in the builders category are going to continue to dwindle.

[pockets]

Being of the builder catagory, the having has never been my passion. The creating is what does it for me. I was raised to make a living with my hands, but I am well aware that there are many more who were not. Everyone goes through hard times and one of the best pieces of advice that my father ever gave me was, "Never sell your tools. As long as you have your tools, you can eat."

My current works in progress are a 7/8n2 Lucky 7 and a version of Rudy's compound twin x2. I recently hooked up with the gang in Largo and want to have something to run. The WWI gas mechanical seems like a natural.

OT question: Why don't clubs put in industrial spurs so that an operator can work a local? The same goes for yards. They are so clogged with stored cars that it would be near impossible to block a train from a switch list.

[andypullen]

Pockets,

There is a track in Michigan or Ohio and I think one in Texas that are built with operation in mind. There may be others. I seem to remember an article in Modeltec from back around 1989 or so that featured the one in Texas.

A friend of mine went to the track in the midwest and had a blast running there.

I did some wheelsets last fall for a man in Nashville who's building a WWI trench locomotive to run on 7 1/2" track. He's using split sprockets from a go cart company that bolt onto the hubs.

Andy Pullen

[pockets]

Yeah, when you start talking drivers that are 9-3/8", on the tire, my equipment starts to look a little limp. Have a buddy who can help me out with the turning and I figure I'll just whittle out the spokes on the M/D. Castings for four spoked wheels, that size, would probably be cost prohibitive. Times like this I miss Michigan and the droppings of industry.

[andypullen]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by pockets:
Yeah, when you start talking drivers that are 9-3/8", on the tire, my equipment starts to look a little limp. Have a buddy who can help me out with the turning and I figure I'll just whittle out the spokes on the M/D. Castings for four spoked wheels, that size, would probably be cost prohibitive. Times like this I miss Michigan and the droppings of industry.</font>

Make up some patterns and send them to me. There's a good reasonable foundry in Lancaster County Pennsylvania that pours aluminum and iron. I haven't used them, but a friend of mine has and they do nice work. They have no internet access, but I'll dig up their phone number and I'll pass it along.

Andy

[pockets]

Andy, thanks for the tip about the go kart sprocket. That will facilitate ratio changes for speed vs grunt fine tuning. Thanks for the offer on castings, but my buddy is going to write a program and get them CNC'd at another friend of his. Probably do aluminum centers with shrunk on tires.

Can you connect me with the gentleman in Nashville? Boy could I bend his ear with questions!

[andypullen]

Hi Pockets,

I shot an email over to my customer in Nashville with your email address. You'll probably hear something today. His first name is Charles.

Andy

[Phill]

Is it just me or are you concerned about the growing number of "diesel" locomotives showing up at live steam railroads? Are you bothered by the recent name change of Live Steam to Live Steam and Outdoor Railroading? What the hell does that mean? Let's be honest. "Outdoor Railroading" is a euphamism for "diesel" locomotive. After all, I don't expect to see any articles on UP 844 in the magazine any time soon. I guess that's not the type of "outdoor railroading" the name is suggesting.......
At a recent event over here, the newly purchased "Flying Scotsman" broke down on the main line and had to be towed home by an old (but reliable )diesel!!! So in this area they are definately needed, because you cant have the main line blocked, and we dont want Steam banned. But from a purely visual point of view, some are interested in Steam, and some are interested in Diesel, a few are interested in both, but, all heads are turned when a Steamer goes by.

[softwerksaol]

"Live Steam" is an odd Americanism. At one time years ago there was an intention to emphasize the "steam" in the hobby, but then we saw more hot air, i.c., tooling, and diesel rail prototypes.

Our hobby is really "model engineering", and I think a magazine name like "American Model Engineer" would be more appropriate.

[pockets]

Agreed

[Unka Jesse]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by damphmann:
[B]Dear Live Steamers,
I find it ironic and almost hypocritical for so many clubs to include the words "live steam" in their names when hardly a steam locomotive plies their clubs' rails. Just visit several websites and take a look at photos posted from meets, runs, etc.. You'll soon see what I mean.

Damphmann, Although I build only live steam locomotives for myself,(5 to date) I can tolerate the "diesel" boys. At the MSLS club track, most of the track expansion of the last few years has been because of the influx of younger members who are diesel lovers. (Yes, the non use of quote marks is intentional because several of the MSLS locomotives actually have Kubota diesel engines in them.) I myself will never build a gas, diesel or electric locomotive, but there are many people out there who do not have the skills or shop necessary to construct a steamer. And, let's face it, many or maybe even most of the younger members have never seen or been close to a full size and operating steam locomotive. Us old codgers can remember when the first of those funny looking streamliner diesels appeared on the rails of our country. I was five years old when my father went to work for the Gulf, Mobile and Northern RR in 1935 as diesel mechanic. The GM&N had the first streamline diesels (The Rebels) to run in the South. Yeah, they were pretty, sleek, fast and neat, but they would never replace the big powerful black steam locomotives!!! Ha!

Unka, live and let live, Jesse

[Gerhard_K]

The Riverside Live Steamers (50 miles East of Los Angeles) are true to their URL - www.steamonly.org (http://www.steamonly.org) - I went to their spring meet 2 weeks ago, and they had plenty of active members and visitors, and not an infernal-combustion or electric in sight.
Unfortunately, about a year ago, they voted to dismantle their 1" scale 4-3/4" track becuase they were down to one regular user, and the maintenance was too demanding; their tracks run through a public park, and there seems to be vandalism several times a year.