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Michael Heck
09-24-2009, 10:41 PM
I am just starting a Falk No. 1 loco. Can anyone give me a lead on wheel castings? ( 4 " dia) It looks like a real bother to machine.

Dave Sohlstrom
09-25-2009, 11:20 PM
I just bought the book last weekend at GEARS in Portland OR. I was very supprised at the lack of information for the boiler. If I build one I will cast the wheels myself.

Dave

willy
09-26-2009, 08:54 AM
Keep in mind, these locos although cute, are terrible at meets. Too slow for the rest of traffic. If you plan to run it in your own back yard your all set, it will be perfect there.

This is only a heads up.

Al_MESSER
09-27-2009, 01:02 AM
Check with Unka Jesse Livingston. I think that he made patterns and had the wheels for his cast at Clarksville Foundry.

Dave Sohlstrom
09-27-2009, 04:20 PM
Is the boiler the problem with not steaming well or is it something more than that.

Dave

willy
09-28-2009, 07:08 AM
Yes runs out of steam quickly, but may also be from the wheels small diameter. I have never built one. Only seen owners attempt to get them going. At Adirondack Live Steamers they had one that used to show up. I remember the last year that I had my mogul that it was a extra hour to go what normally was 10 mins for some ones falk to barley make it back into the yard. When I showed up otherwise it seemed the fellow limited his activities to just the yard area.

Bill Shields
09-28-2009, 10:42 AM
It isn't small wheel diameter....it's lack of steaming capacity to keep the cylinders moving.

It just isn't a very practical design for out running on the track with the 'big boys'.

If you have a limited back yard railroad and want to build something unique and easy to transport, have at it, otherwise, I would recommend something else.

There are lots of good, proven designs for smaller locos that will give you tons of fun without breaking the bank (or your back to transport).

Jan-Eric Nystrom
09-28-2009, 02:06 PM
I can vouch for the practicality of a 0-6-0 loco - all tractive weight is on the wheels, it's compact, relatively light (compared to a Northern, for instance ;-), and it has a long enough boiler to steam properly...

Michael Heck
09-29-2009, 01:26 AM
Thanks for all the input. Since this is my first attempt at a steaming loco, I did not have any delusions of grandeur with it. I just wanted to get the experience. After this, onward and upward.

Jan-Eric Nystrom
09-29-2009, 02:51 PM
That's the right philosophy!

Bill Shields
09-29-2009, 09:56 PM
even though it isn't grand, it still isn't something that I would build.

you will end up putting in a lot of time, and have something that really isn't worth the effort.

there are other small locos around that you can build in the same or less time, and really have something that you can be proud of and get out and run with everyone else.

if you need some suggestions, we are full of good ideas.

I hate to see someone spend many 1000's of hours building something that won't run worth a hoot. This is what discourages people from continuing on with the hobby.

Michael Heck
10-03-2009, 01:49 AM
After reading the several comentators, I started looking. I saw Kozo's A3 Pennsy, and a switcher from Little Engines. Any thoughts?

M

Jan-Eric Nystrom
10-03-2009, 06:08 AM
You didn't mention - what gauge are you planning on?

Do you intend to build your own track, or is there a club nearby?

This may affect your choice.

willy
10-04-2009, 02:44 AM
Granted this is the LS&ORR board (I apologize as this was something reprimanded by Clover). But if you went to the site discoverlivesteam they have some nice listings for projects (0-4-0) that have all the hard stuff done.

Steamboy89
10-04-2009, 07:30 AM
I like the the Falk no.1, it looks like a science fiction contraption. Cant wait to see pictures :).

watt-steam
10-04-2009, 11:46 AM
After reading the several comentators, I started looking. I saw Kozo's A3 Pennsy, and a switcher from Little Engines. Any thoughts?

M

Both are good engines, but the instructions with Kozo's engines are really great - you can't help but acquire excellent machining and build knowledge if you make one of his.

Unless I'm mistaken though, most of his are 3 1/2" gauge, which is small for people hauling. Can be done, certainly does work, but is small.

I think there are scaled up versions of at least one of Kozo's engines out there. Anyone know?

Bill Shields
10-05-2009, 11:21 AM
Is a fun scale - easy to transport, easy to build, won't break the bank.

Again, what tracks are in your area?

pkastagehand
10-05-2009, 04:37 PM
the A3 book is 3-1/2" gauge, 3/4" scale. Yes it will pull a people or two, it is small so it may save a bit on materials, be easier to handle, no cranes needed to lift off the boiler, etc...

Kozo does include some info on scaling up to 1-1/2" scale for 7-1/4" and/or 7-1/2" gauge tracks. Not sure how complete that section is since I'm not scaling up.

Good reference book. I'm not a beginner in metal working in general but I am a total noobie to locomotive building and this book is good for holding one's hand so to speak; on both counts, locos and machining.

I don't have any of the other books but I think they are somewhat similar in approach though the others may not have all the basic machining instructions. In other words expect a little higher level of machining ability from the get go. But don't hold me to that.

Paul

kenrinc
10-06-2009, 08:24 PM
Kozo has a section in the A3 book on scaling up to 1.5" scale. It's just the items he felt needed to be re-designed for the larger scale. Other than what is shown he assumes you double dimensions. Having been through much of it now I would say that if your the type of person that expects his "hand to be held" through the construction phases in minute detail you'll be a bit dissapointed. But considering that many builders have only had drawings to work from and nothing else, it's a huge educational advantage to have the book as it gets you "thinking" in the Kozo mindset about how you would go about tackling some part or problem. There is a bit of "assumed experience" expected of the builder. But you are given well dimensioned and excellent drawings to work from and many tips and tricks for commonly esoteric procedures that can be used to build any engine. There are no other books like Kozo's. He set the precedence.

I'm a 1/3rd of the way through the A3 in 1.5" scale.

Ken-

sid pileski
10-07-2009, 01:43 AM
I built a Falk. I enjoyed the build. Took me about a year. I collector at Cabin Fever in PA was after me to buy it befor I was even done. I sold it, and regret it a lot. It was a very nice build if I do say so myself!
Last I heard, he sold of everything he had and now my little Falk is in the hands of a collector that dosen't show his stuff.
I have some pictures if you'd like to see it.
I had a lot of fun building it. I think it was worth it.

Sid

Jan-Eric Nystrom
10-07-2009, 07:44 AM
I had a lot of fun building it. I think it was worth it.


Definitely - but did you ever run it? The critique presented here is in regard to its steaming and running capabilities only. Otherwise, it certainly is a cute engine, fun to build...

watt-steam
10-07-2009, 01:08 PM
Pictures please Sid, love to see it.

Glad you enjoyed the build, that is a big part of the hobby.

Watt

sid pileski
10-07-2009, 04:29 PM
I never fired it! I sold it before I could.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/sids32/FALK1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/sids32/FALK2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/sids32/FALK3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/sids32/FALK4.jpg
I made some modifications to the boiler to try and get more volume out of it.
I realize it was not a main line runner when I was building it. But it was still a lot of fun. I talked with Uncle Jessie a few times durring the build to get his insight.
I also did an article in Live Steam about the boiler. Because Bill did not give a lot of dimensions in the text or drawings, I redrew the boiler as I built it and did a more complete set of dimensions for someone else to build from.
I forget the issue that was in.

Sid

watt-steam
10-08-2009, 10:58 AM
Lookin good Sid!

Great workmanship, and I love the engine powered display turntable idea.

Thanks for sharing the pix.

Watt

Jan-Eric Nystrom
10-08-2009, 01:21 PM
Good looking engine! No wonder somebody bought it before you even had a chance to run it...

Have you heard anything from the new owner?

sid pileski
10-08-2009, 04:34 PM
No, never heard from the new owner. I'd like to but I understand he is a collector, and does not show his things.
I'd like to see it again. If I had the chance, I think I'd try to buy it back.

Yes that was a steam powered turn table. A little Stuart engine. He got that too!

I always thought about building a larger one, and maybe make it narrow gage
to give it a larger boiler, and more stamina.

Sid

Bill Shields
10-08-2009, 08:22 PM
Very nice.

I have often found that my projects always look their best BEFORE they are ever steamed...not that they are any great shakes at any time.

Bill Cody
10-08-2009, 09:20 PM
I do not clean my steamer at the end of the running season. I winterize with R/V anti-freeze and put it away. I store in a covered trailer in temperatures that go well below freezing. I leave the excess oil on the engine from the run season, it protects the metal.

Come Spring I clean the exterior, lubricate, add water/boiler treatment and light the fire. I have been treating my Bill Conner 4+4 vertical boiler steamer this way since 2001 and it still runs like a scalded cat, with more than enough power and speed to run away and hide.

Bill

Al_MESSER
10-09-2009, 09:04 PM
Bill, would his Falk chassis be big enough to handle a Bill Connor's Vertical boiler? From what I have seen, they are very good steamers.

Michael Heck
10-10-2009, 12:30 AM
1. I was trained as a repair machinist by the U.S. Navy in 1976. I am presently working in a machine shop, and have access to all the metal working machinery I need except for a sheet metal shear.

2. I plan to build and run on 7-1/2" track. There are a few people in this area who have track at their homes.

3. I thought about modifying the Falk by dropping the gypsy and doubling the size of the boiler. Or, I could just go with Kozo's A3.

That is me.

Michael Heck
10-10-2009, 12:32 AM
Are you any relation to Mike Pileski of many LS&ORR article submissions?

sid pileski
10-10-2009, 06:12 PM
I am one and the same. Mike is my real name. But I got Sid as a nickname when I was a little kid. Most people know me as Sid.
Yes, I've done a few articles in live steam.

Sid/Mike

Michael Heck
10-10-2009, 08:12 PM
I built your 1-1/2 X 1-1/2 vertical engine. Sadly, I never finished it due to getting side tracked. It will go to work with me next week and I will set it up and try to run it.

I just ordered Kozo's A3 Pennsy book. Wow, three projects at the same time. What m I getting myself into ? ! ? !

Bill Shields
10-10-2009, 10:11 PM
most definetly not...nowhere big enough.

Connor's boiler has something like 250 tubes in it and is a good 12" in diameter (or so it appears, I have never taken a tape measure to one).

sid pileski
10-10-2009, 10:41 PM
Michael- It's always a great feeling to hear that someone is building from my plans!
What are you using for the linear bearings in the crosshead?
By the way, back to the Falk. I'd still give it a go. Compared to Kozo's A3 the Falk will be a little eaisier to build and less time.
Might not be a bad place to start for your first loco.

Sid

Steamboy89
10-11-2009, 02:42 AM
I do not clean my steamer at the end of the running season. I winterize with R/V anti-freeze and put it away. I store in a covered trailer in temperatures that go well below freezing. I leave the excess oil on the engine from the run season, it protects the metal.

Come Spring I clean the exterior, lubricate, add water/boiler treatment and light the fire. I have been treating my Bill Conner 4+4 vertical boiler steamer this way since 2001 and it still runs like a scalded cat, with more than enough power and speed to run away and hide.

Bill

This is the only good thing about living in So Cal, The weather is relatively clear year round, only problem is when the raining season starts.


Michael- It's always a great feeling to hear that someone is building from my plans!
What are you using for the linear bearings in the crosshead?
By the way, back to the Falk. I'd still give it a go. Compared to Kozo's A3 the Falk will be a little eaisier to build and less time.
Might not be a bad place to start for your first loco.

Sid

Maybe I should build a falk. :cool:

Michael Heck
10-12-2009, 01:53 AM
The book is cheap - $15.00 .

Steamboy89
10-12-2009, 06:44 AM
The book is cheap - $15.00 .

yeah it really is a great bargain, not only that, but from what it looks like, the construction materials look relatively cheap. For sure I am considering building one in the future because it seriously looks like something out of a Jules Verne novel.

Michael Heck
10-12-2009, 10:48 PM
Like everyone is saying, it won't run with the big boys. I am thinking of dropping the gypsy and doubling the size of the boiler. Does anyone have any input on that?

emccamey
10-12-2009, 11:39 PM
I am thinking of dropping the gypsy and doubling the size of the boiler. Does anyone have any input on that?

Michael,

You'll have to do more than just lengthening the boiler. Steam production is a factor of the grate area and the firebox surface. There's several good design rules of thumbs about. Know the cylinders and piston area, the crank throw, the driver size, etc. and then back into the 'desired' steaming' requirements. The resulting boiler change will alter the overall proportion and shape of the engine. This will give a different 'character'. Likely one would to be much better off choosing an already proven design for running.

-ed-

sid pileski
10-12-2009, 11:44 PM
Mike- Droping the gypsy, I think would take away from the funkyness of the little engine. The very thing that gives it appeal.
If you don't run the gypsy is dosen't draw off any steam, so I think the others are right, If you wanna "run" another engine is more well suited.
But, this little engine will always be near and dear to me!


Sid

Steamboy89
10-13-2009, 07:10 AM
Michael,

You'll have to do more than just lengthening the boiler. Steam production is a factor of the grate area and the firebox surface. There's several good design rules of thumbs about. Know the cylinders and piston area, the crank throw, the driver size, etc. and then back into the 'desired' steaming' requirements. The resulting boiler change will alter the overall proportion and shape of the engine. This will give a different 'character'. Likely one would to be much better off choosing an already proven design for running.

-ed-

I have already tried my hand at locomotive engineering, lets just say you may need to take a few classes at your local accredited technical college before attempting such a radical design change. I must agree with ed, using a proven design will be much easier.
(Yes those are marble tipped sand and steam domes :))

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/p3x789/001-3.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/p3x789/004.jpg

If power is what you seek Michael, might I suggest Kozo's "New Shay?" I picked that design because I am a fairly large man and I figured it would look rather silly for me to be puttering around in a puny Falk or A3 switcher.

watt-steam
10-14-2009, 12:53 PM
Steamboy I dont agree with your hijacking Michael's Falk thread with your fantasy loco. Suggest you remove the post.

Watt

Steamboy89
10-14-2009, 04:34 PM
Steamboy I dont agree with your hijacking Michael's Falk thread with your fantasy loco. Suggest you remove the post.

Watt

I was using it as an example of "what NOT to do", please understand this.

Michael Heck
10-15-2009, 01:26 AM
Maybe you are right. My first original thought was to build and get experience. Since this is my first build besides Sid / Mike Pileski's 1-1/2 X 1-1/2 vertical (L. S. 1999) I guess I will go back to Plan one. I bought Kozo's A3 Pennsy book and I think that will be next. The tunnel narrows, and there is light.

If anyone wants to chat off the thread, my e-mail address is mikeandgloria35@verizon.net.

pkastagehand
10-16-2009, 04:30 PM
I bought Kozo's A3 Pennsy book and I think that will be next. The tunnel narrows, and there is light.


And that light is the headlight of an oncoming locomotive...

I am building the A3 (slowly) in 3/4". Good book for me anyway; good intro to a loco and while I've done a certain amount of machining it has helped me over some methods I've not yet had to approach in terms of order of steps, work holding, etc. My challenge has been work holding on little fiddly bits. Most of what I've done in the past I could clamp in the vise or on the table with little thought to holding it secure.

But work, house maintenance, other hobbies, and now messing about a bit with a gauge 1 loco slows the work on the A3.

Paul

Michael Heck
10-16-2009, 09:02 PM
Luckily for me, I think the headlight is a Falk No. 1.

sid pileski
10-18-2009, 10:33 PM
Mike- If you get into it and have any questions maybe I can help.

Sid

Michael Heck
10-20-2009, 10:58 PM
Sid: Where can I get the wheel castings for the Falk? Or do you still have the patterns? I am not worried about the cylinders. I just got Kozo's A3 book and it has a tip about shaping square to round in the lathe with a parting tool laid over. I never even thought about that.

sid pileski
10-21-2009, 01:45 AM
Mike- I foget where I got my castings, but I think it was a place down south
where the guy actually died in a fireworks fire at his place. He was into all sorts of things. Nice guy.
Anyway, I bet if you looked around you could find something that could work.
If all else fails, they could be machined from discs. Might not have the spokes
that the casting did. But what the heck.

pockets
10-25-2009, 12:22 PM
A while back, Jan-Eric did an article about whittling wheel paterns on a rotary table (the date/issue escapes me). The same method and tooling could be used to carve them out of metal.

Greg B.

Jan-Eric Nystrom
10-25-2009, 03:18 PM
A while back, Jan-Eric did an article about whittling wheel paterns on a rotary table (the date/issue escapes me). The same method and tooling could be used to carve them out of metal.

'Twas in the Jan-Feb 2005 issue, but there's no more than a mention of the technique there.

It would be quite a bit more tedious to do in metal - wood and plastic are easy and fast to mill to shape, but you'd need a really rigid setup, and lots of time, do do it in steel.

It has been done, though, and with only four small wheels such as on the Falk, any problems could certainly be conquered, even in a small home workshop.

Michael Heck
10-25-2009, 06:22 PM
Yes, page 36 does just mention - however, I have access to a Bridgeport with a rotary table. Still much work and planning.

Bill Shields
10-25-2009, 08:27 PM
look at the Niagara that Fred Boufard built - all done that way. He even did a Hudson with spoked wheels (I think).

takes a lot of time.

Jan-Eric Nystrom
10-25-2009, 08:51 PM
Yes, page 36 does just mention - however, I have access to a Bridgeport with a rotary table. Still much work and planning.

There's actually a bit more in the Sept/Oct 2005 issue, page 16 - about the wheel patterns for the 0-6-0, had almost forgotten that. Shows a sketch of a special D-bit I made for the wheel rim.

Just four small wheels and you have a Bridgeport + rotary? I'd say go for it! ;)

(Especially if you can get hold of some cast iron chunks - much much faster to mill than steel...)

Michael Heck
10-25-2009, 11:02 PM
Yes, it looks do-able. Involved, though. I almost didn't recognize the engineer without his Mickey Mouse ears.

M

Jan-Eric Nystrom
10-26-2009, 08:02 AM
Actually, the principle is rather simple:

To mill the spokes, you offset the center of the rotary table one way for one side, the other way for the other side of a spoke. In this way, you can get parallel sides to the spokes, or any taper you wish. Some home-made D-bits will help in getting the right profiles.

The rest is simple milling of circular surfaces.

(BTW: Those MM ears are a couple of ping-pong rackets! ;) )

willy
10-26-2009, 10:37 PM
(BTW: Those MM ears are a couple of ping-pong rackets! ;) )


This explains your need to scratch the back of your head for the photo! grin

Al_MESSER
10-28-2009, 03:39 PM
CORRECTING MIS-INFORMATION

A while back, I posted that Unka Jesse had made his own wheel patterns when he made his "Mighty Falk". This is an error, he bought his castings from another source. Sorry! Mia Culpa!

Benjamin Maggi
11-12-2009, 08:54 PM
(BTW: Those MM ears are a couple of ping-pong rackets! ;) )

How else would be bounce ideas off of you?

Regarding the Falk. I say build it if that is what you want. The real thing couldn't compete on any mainline with other trains just like your model wouldn't. Some people build engines just for the experience of creating something. If that is your goal, the Falk is a great engine.

If you want a runner, I would also suggest the A3 by Kozo. I purchased the book and realized that even in 7.25" gauge it probably wouldn't handle my club's grades all that well. So I went with a larger engine.

Building something you like is the most important aspect, as chosing something you don't like will lead to quitting early out of boredom. However, finishing a project and realizing that it isn't what you wanted, or doesn't operate like you wanted it to, will also cause problems down the road.

Perhaps you could build the falk, and then get a Plum Cove Studios' Generic Electric engine and build a small 2-axle riding car to go behind the engine and push the Falk around!

Jan-Eric Nystrom
11-13-2009, 06:02 AM
In addition to BM's response above, may I offer some personal experience:

My first engine was a 4-4-0 (the "3003") in 7.25 gauge. I like its looks, and I very much enjoyed building it.

However, I don't run it much anymore... in fact, it hasn't been in steam for over a year. Why? Because my 0-6-0 (the "666 Chicken") is so much better a runner - it is heavier, all weight is on the drivers, and it can really pull.

But, the choice is definitely the builder's - if he likes the looks of a certain prototype, nothing can/will stop him from choosing that particular engine. What may happen is what happened to me - but then, he'll be happy to have another project coming up! (and another, and...)

Michael Heck
11-13-2009, 08:40 PM
In reference to Ben's response, and Jan-Eric's chime in, I am going ahead with the Falk for the experience. As I said before, this is my first build. I have a friend in the area, and I will run on his track. After that, I will do something larger that will at least keep up with the other larger engines. I most likely will not be traveling great distances to run, unless the lottery dumps on me. There are not very many big clubs in the Virginia area.

fender
11-15-2009, 03:38 PM
Michael,
A couple of thoughts on your Falk. First, I would consider building it with a variation on a scotch marine boiler rather than a conventional locomotive boiler. This would be especially workable if you are planning to use propane as fuel. This type of boiler has a cylindrical firebox with return flues, and is inherently a short "stubby" boiler by design. Google "scotch marine boiler".

Secondly, I see you are in Virginia. I live in the Richmond area, and would like to meet more local live steamers. If you are game, I can help you design and make a wooden pattern for the driver castings, and get them cast in iron. I have made several such patterns and either had them cast at a foundry (there is one here in Richmond) or cast them myself. PM me if you are interested in pursuing this.
Regards,
Dan

Unka Jesse
11-20-2009, 03:17 PM
Thanks for all the input. Since this is my first attempt at a steaming loco, I did not have any delusions of grandeur with it. I just wanted to get the experience. After this, onward and upward.

Michael,

The little Falk is an excellent running locomotive, but as Bill Shields and a few others have mentioned, it has a tiny boiler and runs out of steam if put on a long grade. I run mine mostly on a semi-portable track in the front yard and it does very well, but the yard is pretty level.

I made some alterations to mine to increase its steaming ability, but I still do not run "with the big boys" at the MSLS meets. As to wheels, they have a solid back which means you could fabricate them very easily. Al Messer thought that I had the wheels cast, but he was thinking of the ones for my Filer and Stowell. If I were to make another Falk, I would fabricate the wheels by machining the tire and hub along with the solid back and then add spokes and counterweight by silversoldering them in place like Kozo Hioraka does. I do have (somewhere) a drawing of the boiler interior as I built it. I think that Bill Harris might have been afraid of lawsuits which is why he did not put the boiler design in his excellent article for LS magazine. He did show the burner, but I made some changes there. LS magazine published the changes I made and also put them into the laughingly/mistakenly named "Shop Wisdom of Jesse Livingston".

Jan-Eric Nystrom
11-20-2009, 04:47 PM
Hi Jesse, nice to hear from you after along hiatus! (You haven't been following your tagline, have you? ;) )

Re publishing boiler drawings: Would a writer really be liable in case of an accident? how could it be proven to be the designer's fault, and not the builder's? (I've had admonishments and warnings in my articles, and no real boiler design info, so I feel I'm safe in any case...)

Michael Heck
11-20-2009, 09:10 PM
Hey Unka Jesse:

If you find the drawings for the boiler, that would be nice and helpful. I will also look around to as Mr. Harris put it "professional boiler makers".

Thanks
Mike

pockets
11-22-2009, 11:15 PM
Jesse,
You have been made highly conspicuous, by your absence. Good to see the flag and eagle, again.

Greg B.