Question for all

[Bill Shields]

I may be nosey, but I would like to know the ages and time of interest in Live Steam for all you folks out there. There has been a lot of talk, even around our club, where the average age of the members is....well 70+ or so it seems...that this is a dying hobby.

Since there is no place to put it in the 'profile', if anyone would like to 'share' this 'delicate' information, can they put their year of birth and year of first interest in live steam under the 'INTERESTS' heading in their profile...or stick it in your 'signature' block if you want to advertise

[This message has been edited by Bill Shields (edited 12-20-2005).]

[GWRdriver]

WARNING - LONG RANT

I can't remember a time when, with or without cause, cranky old steam men didn't stand around the track and grouse about the hobby dying out, and as could be predicted all those cranky old men died out and were replaced by cranky younger men who continue to fret and grouse about the hobby dying. I don't know where the evidence to suppport the continuing dire predictions of our emminent demise and doom is coming from but here's what it looks like from my part of the world.

In 10 years time, registrations for the National Ga 1 Steamup have risen from around 40 to around 250 an shows no sign of slowing, the convention site is simply out of beds and that still that represents only a small fraction of the total numbers involved in small scale live steam in the US. At the last NGa1S at least one vendor sold out their entire production run of locomotives during the weekend, each of these at several $K a pop, and that's just the garden railway folks. What has this to do with us? What % of us started with larger trains and went to smaller ones?

In my own large scale club, the Mid-south Live Steamers, the original membership was 6. The membership now stands at around 270 and is growing, although admittedly slowly, but that's OK (see below). There is a list of prospectuive buyers waiting for steam locomotives to come available for sale. Track length has grown from around 600 feet to almost two miles. The local garden railway society has grown from an original memebership of 11 to over 300 in 10 years. SOME of these guys are or will become live steamers - one of our club's most active members and runners started in Ga1 electric trains, never mind steam.

I know dozens of children who are avid train lovers an the best thing about them is that their parents are delighted that they have this interest and encourage it. SOME of these young folks will eventually find their way to live steam, that is if in the meantime some live steam Horse's ASS doesn't tell them to get lost because they're just a dumb kid. ALL of them (hopefully) will leave to discover cars and girls (or boys) and will disappear for a while to become (also hopefully) normal people. (Some people I've met in live steam apparently skipped this life phase and consequently did not become normal people - and you know who you are! :-) When timing and life permits the pursuit of a hobby a few will find their way back and those are the few that we need.

As for "recruiting," specifically from "trade schools", what utter nonsense. What % in your clubs have become live steamers because they were machinists? What % became members because they loved steam or trains, and then learned a little machine work to get along in the hobby? And lastly what % were "recruited" from trade schools? Are you beginning to get the picture? Kids who are in what few trade schools are left are there to escape the prospect of a life with a minimum wage job, not because they want to play with very expensive steam toys. Generally what we are doing exists in another universe and the notion that trade schools are a source for prospective members is a waste of time.

Suppliers: There are more suppliers of higher quality materials (castings, etc) for the live steamer than ever before. Yes there are problems with some suppliers, and suppliers come and go like a few of the British old guard, Clarkson's, Basset-Lowke, and Kennion's in the UK, and Coventry, Friend's Models, Winton Brown, Power Model, and others in the US, but the slack has been taken up by later suppliers. Nothing dying there.

If one dire prediction could be made, from my perspective, it would be that there is a significant proportional decrease in the number of individuals in the United States who are capable of and are building live steam locomotives, either from scratch or from commercial castings, in their own home shop, and this number is falling like a concrete duck. In a club of the size of the MSLS that number can maybe be counted on the fingers and toes. What has increased (proportionately) and is growing is the number of individuals who are building, either from scratch or commercially available parts, diesel prototype/IC locomotives. So rather than dying, the hobby is on all fronts more vigorous than ever, although it is no doubt changing from it's purely live steam origins to a more inclusive "large scale trains" state.

The last thing is, this is a very specialized and demanding hobby in a number of ways, and we don't want just everybody in the hobby. Frankly because there's not room at the tracks. But we do need to let the world know we exist so those who genuinely want to be live steamers can find us and come to the hobby on their own, and if we got one "keeper" member out of every 250,000 people who come wandering by that's a very good day indeed. The rest will stop and gawk for a bit and then move on.

Year of birth: 1946
First Interest: 1950
First steam engine: 1960
First live steam activity: 1965

[timz1999]

birth 1968
first interest 1977
I don't have a steamengine now but I am planing to build one .

[EARS_MCFLY]

Being born in 1938 within 200 yards of Southern Railroad's tracks and living there for the next 18 years, I am unable to remember a time when Steam locomootives and Steam engines did not facinate me.

[fred v]

born 1944
started live steam 1994
fred v

[andypullen]

Born 1965
First interest in trains of any kind 1967
First exposure to Live Steam 1975
Started making parts for locomotives 1981

[This message has been edited by andypullen (edited 12-20-2005).]

[JohnHudak]

Born 1958
First interest in trains; Age 5 ( an old box of Lionel dropped off by a neighbor)
First Exposure to Live Steam; Mid 70's
Started Building Live Steam; Mid 80's

[Jan-Eric Nystrom]

Born 1951
First documented interest in trains: age 3
First tin toy train: age 5
HO layouts: age 10-16
Z-scale (1:220) glass-covered coffee-table layout: 1985, still exists
First exposure/interest in live steam: 1993
Began building ls loco: 2000
Current status: 2 ls locos + one electric, 500 ft portable 7-1/4" track

more on
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~animato/rail/rail.html

Greetings,
J-E

[PTSideshow]

born 1949
Interest in steam 8 years old shoveling coal into two downdraft watergrate boilers and running a small vertical coke bottle steam engine on a ventilation blower.
Father held a first class stationary engineer license city of Detroit.
high school as a tool & die co-op student
I hold a 1st class stationary engineer license
city of Detroit. Retired from the public school system after 31+ years as a facilty manger.
In our union I only know of two others that are actively into live steam mostly of the stationary type. out of over 1500 member of all license classes.
One has built a small full size steam engine to power his flat deck float boat. Can't remember what you call them.
I agree with GWRdriver about the trade schools or that the interest is dying it is changing. and probally for the better. I belong to a number of different groups all are small and of a limited appeal to the general public. They all complain about the lack of recuitment. With the way they treat newbeis most of the time I wouldn't want to be the one to bring somebody into the group and have thier interest shut off. A lot of the questions won't be answered or they act like you don't know that.
When it stops being fun its time to move on. Which I have done for a number of groups, including a full size train group that ran over a spur line on the weekend. When it became a full time second unpaid job beating on the train for 60 hours a week it was time to go. that club is alway on the verge of folding and blowing away. I understand the president goes out and does talks about trains and interurbqans in drag now that he came out of the closet.The world is never dull or uninteresting.

Glen
been there and probally broke it doing that

[pockets]

9-18-49
First interrest; 1972
Have modelled the gamut of smaller scales, currently working on first ( 7+ gauge ) large scale models.

Greg B.

[Unka Jesse]

Soon be 76 and interested in trains since 1945. Built RRSC American (completed 1991) and four more locomotives since then along with 15 stationary LS models.

Unka Jesse

[srrl5]

Born 1955
First interest in trains about 1959
Found Live Steam 1965
First Steam Locomotive 1970

http://www.srrl.net/

David

[Bill Shields]

OK, so what is the AVERAGE age of our respondents so far?...quick, somebody with a calculator.....my abacus is around somewhere

[Phill Smith]

Hmmmmm, it seems that I'm the spring chicken among you all......

YOB 1967

First interest at age 7, when I built my first (crude) steam turbine. From memory the fan blades lasted about 1 minute.... I made the fan from paper, and the boiler from a Milo tin with a bit of fish tank air hose poked through the lid for a steam pipe.....
I joined Castledare Miniature Railways at age 10 (they let me join 2 years younger than the rules stated I could because I wouldn't go away.....)

I have built a few steam engines (including 2 loco's) and turbines, along with ships etc for them to power. Oh, I even built a gas turbine when I was an apprentice. It would only work with an oxygen boost and acetylene for fuel. It ran reasonably well until I opened it up to show of (after a total running time of about 5 minutes)..... and it threw every blade.....


Cheers,

Phill.

[ErieAtlantic7597]

As one of the geezers,I just had to jump in here.
Born April 1942
Raised next to the Erie Main Line, Paterson, New Jersey.
Rode behind and saw many Erie K1 Pacifics, which started my life long interest in steam locomotives.
Rode behind the Atlantic of my late friend and mentor,John Cassady of Orlando, Fl in 1971.From then to now, I've been hooked on live steam.And large scale trains generally.
Built and run an 1 1/2 inch coal burning Erie comutter Atlantic. First steamed in 1997. Still running the crap out of it. Also, built a 21/2 inch. Goose #2. First ran in 1992.Its in semi retirement after five years of hard running.
Well, thats my story.

Take care, happy safe holidays,

Bruce

[Bill Cody]

Bor Aug 31, 1931, First interest in steam 1945, Got into steamboats/trains after retirement in 1970. Currently running a 20' steamboat, numerous R/C steamboat, 4+4 vertical boiler steam engine, GE Dash 9 Diesel and numerous items of rolling stock. Bill Cody

[Bill Shields]

OK, if I did my math correctly, the average DOB is 1951 for this group. Jesse confused things by giving me an age rather than a date, so I had to work backwards...not easy for a Yankee...especially when my head is still ringing from all the grinding I am doing on my boiler.....

So, about 50 is where we stand (or sit) depending on what side of 50...and how far...

How many of you are in the manufacturing or machining business as a primary occupation?

Sorry Bill B, missed you, so you up the ante a couple of years..

[This message has been edited by Bill Shields (edited 12-21-2005).]

[railfancwb]

Born 1940...delivered by a doctor who was under contract with Southern Railway as well as having a public practice. Grew up in Bristol TN-VA, the junction of Southern Railway and Norfolk & Western, where one could hear the whistles of switchers making/breaking trains all night. Long distance travel until well after the end of WWII was by train -- including an annual journey to west Tennessee on the Tennessean. Received my first train while my PJs still had footies, and have been interested ever since. Charles

[andypullen]

In response to your second question, Bill,

I'm a machinist employed by the US Army at Fort Detrick. I've been in the field since high school graduation in 1983. I worked in industry for 19 years doing various types of work. From maintenance to job shop work to production work to R&D to full size locomotive work ( I worked for a couple of years in the Irondale shop for Southern Railway working on N&W 1218 and 611) and back to maintenance. 90% of it has been on manual equipment and I now run the maintenance machine shop here at Detrick.

I also make parts for other people's locomotives, now.

Andy Pullen

[Ken]

Born January of 43.

Been interested in locomotives as long as I can remember. Got into live steam some thirty plus years ago when I built my first 2-truck Shay. Since then I have built several more Shays along with a Mogul, a 2-4-4-2 mallet, a 1/4 size Case steam tractor and am just finishing up a 2-6-6-2 GN mallet. Prior to live steam, I was into HO gauge equipment which is all stored away in boxes somewhere.

I grew up in Sacramento and lived near the Western Pacific yards. As a kid of about 13, I used to go over to the WP yards and would go to the office and ask for a yard pass. After doing this so often, they just gave me a pass and didn.t date it, said to use it when ever I wanted to. The best part of going over to the WP yard was riding around in the yard with a hostler I met, as he was making up the trains. I can just imagine the railroads doing this in this day and age.

[locodan5416]

born in 1986, 19 years old.

first interest came around age of 6 through grandfather at local club. we are three generations of live steamers.

stories of the nkp berkshires, seeing the 611 as a little kid, and thomas the tank engine brew my interest in trains, and too frustrated to model in HO like my uncle, became interested in live steam.

currently a mechanical engineering student attending university, while working on a little engines pacific in 7.5" guage with my father.

[willy]

Born 1960
first year of interest? Blame my Dad for this as he was involved in a O guage (third rail for power on side) society in Westfield NJ that ran a club above a garage in Westfield. So probably first time he took me there I was fascinated. When? Pffft! The heck if I know.
High school and private tutuoring killed interest in trains till 1980. Then it was LALS from the get go.

Willy

[jmpharrington]

DOB: 10/20/71
Fist interest: +/- 1975 (Marx train set)
Since then: Large N-Scale collection - recently sold. Growing O-Gauge, modern and postwar.
Live steam interest +/- 1981 through Little Engines catalog (at 10 years old)
Serious particiapation in live steam 2004, NJSL member.
Live steam construction: 2005, with purchase of partially completed 1" Atlantic. (still setting up shop)

On a editorial comment, two of the greatest impediments to having younger people involved is cost, and skills. Live steam is a very expensive hobby if one has to purchase "operational" equipment, due to lack of skills or equipment. Second, there are very few of the "youger generation" who have any machine skills, or in fact have even seen machine tools. I know one can learn, and even teach themselves (myself included), but to the general population, or someone who might have an interest, this is a daunting task.

Just my 2 cents.

Jim

[This message has been edited by jmpharrington (edited 01-25-2006).]

[pkastagehand]

Just turned 50 and I still don't have the money, so age isn't the factor there. I just have never had the drive to go for those high paying jobs. (Or the drive to get the education needed for those jobs.)

Rode Santa Fe from Streator IL to KCMO as a child/youth. Missed steam by a few years but loved the F units and the smell of the diesels.

Interest in steam came around early/mid seventies after getting into the old hit n' miss gas engines and antique tractors and going to Thresherman's Reunions and seeing steam traction engines. Bought an old lathe and started modeling with a hit n miss engine and then a Stuart vertical.

Don't know if I'll ever finish my Kozo A3 (3/4") but enjoying the process when I have time.

[bbenjamin]

dob 1967
started into livesteam about 1998, been interested in steam logging since early on
teaching myself machineing, bought used Mogel at 2003 trienal. Still working out the bugs

[hawkman]

DOB-1950
First Exposure to Live Steam-2004

[tel]

DOB 1947
First train set 1951
First involvement in live steam 1976

[tel]

One thing I notice from all the above - Unk is older than anyone

[Unka Jesse]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by tel:
One thing I notice from all the above - Unk is older than anyone</font>
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c400/Unkajesse/Ogg.gif
Yep, he, he he, I be gittin' on up there awright.

Unka Jesse

[This message has been edited by Unka Jesse (edited 02-02-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Unka Jesse (edited 02-02-2006).]

[Bill Shields]

Jesse...

Are you as old as dirt? http://bbs.livesteam.net//biggrin.gif

Better older than dirt than IN the dirt!!!

[Bill Cody]

Make all the snide remarks you wish about age but I think my father had the right idea. "A woman is as old as she looks, a man isn't old 'till he stops looking". My father was 29 when I was born and when he passed away his girlfriend (a blonde) was two years older than I. Bill

[Bill Shields]

Bragging or complaining because dad got there first? http://bbs.livesteam.net//rolleyes.gif

[Bill Cody]

Naww - I was married at the time with three children, no reason to look elsewhere. Bill